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[Oct. 31st, 2010|10:42 pm]
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[justcloseby]
Was I in the wrong here?

In the fish and chip shop, waiting for my food. There is a small child, around the age of two, playing in the doorway. I can tell it's going to end badl, but I mind my own business. The mother is sitting on a seat with her nose in a magazine, ignoring the kid.

I... don't like kids. But I don't specifically mean them any harm. I opened the door, after my food was done, and the kid toppled over and face planted. He bawled, but he wasn't hurt or scratched or anything, just got a fright. It was an accident, I mean, I didn't open the door super fast to TRY to get this kid to fall over...

But the mother started going off at me, saying "Why did you do that for? You should have waited! You should have asked him to move!"

And I went nuts at her. I said, because that's not my job. If you had taken your face out of that magazine for three seconds you could have seen he was PLAYING IN THE DOORWAY and that it's probably not safe. I said, you chose to have the child, now it's on you to care for him and look after him, not expect the world to do it for you. And I said that, he wasn't hurt, and he's probably learned a valuable lesson about doorways not being good places to play - a lesson Mommy clearly hasn't bothered to teach.

So... was I wrong in what I said to the mother? Or are there those of you out there who think I should have "Gently coaxed him out of the way" as his mother clearly expected me to do? How many of you think it's the mother's problem for ignoring him and letting him play somewhere unsafe?

EDIT for clarity - I posted and this and went to bed, and woke up to find all these comments. For the record, I did NOT smash some poor kid in the face with a door. I specifically said I DID NOT open it super fast to TRY to get this kid to fall over. He was standing on the outside of the door, I opened it INWARDS, and he lost his balance. I opened it reasonbly slowly, as it happens - more than enough time for him to realize that the thing he was leaning on was starting to move. Perhaps I should have said that, but I thought "It was an accident, I mean, I didn't open the door super fast to TRY to get this kid to fall over..." said all it needed to say.
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Comments:
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[User Picture]From: goop
2010-10-31 09:48 am (UTC)

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I think you were both wrong.

She was wrong to be ignoring her kid and let him get hurt, but yes you should have gently coaxed him out of the way. That's called manners?
[User Picture]From: reckoningnight
2010-10-31 09:56 am (UTC)

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I agree. The mother should have paid more attention, but it wouldn't have taken much time or effort from you to ask/warn the little darling about the door
[User Picture]From: isis_newton
2010-10-31 09:50 am (UTC)

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It was an 'accident' which you as a responsible adult saw coming and allowed to happen anyway - to prove a point to a toddler. Congrats!

Did your fish and chip emergency not permit you the five seconds it would be taken to scoot the kid out of the way before opening the door?

[User Picture]From: blkrabbitofinle
2010-10-31 10:08 am (UTC)

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This.
[User Picture]From: sexlexia
2010-10-31 09:54 am (UTC)

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I don't think that children should be punished or hurt because their parents don't look after them properly.


What you did was bad, and you should feel bad.
[User Picture]From: turnofftherain
2010-10-31 12:59 pm (UTC)

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Yeah, this is pretty much what I was going to say. He's a toddler for fuck's sake.
[User Picture]From: yellowbread
2010-10-31 09:56 am (UTC)

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Both of you were in the wrong.
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[User Picture]From: lydia_golis
2010-10-31 09:38 pm (UTC)

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Like it's an inanimate object, even!
[User Picture]From: l3antha
2010-10-31 10:02 am (UTC)

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Mom is at fault for not paying attention, but I think your rant was a little over the line. I feel the same way as you do, but I probably would have just rolled my eyes and gone, "Whatever, Lady. *scoff* Not my kid, not my problem. Leave me alone."
[User Picture]From: topf
2010-10-31 10:24 am (UTC)

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Both of you. But for some reason I love what you told her.
[User Picture]From: reckoningnight
2010-10-31 10:28 am (UTC)

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Yes. Some parents need that verbal reality check and most people aren't going to give it to them.
[User Picture]From: loveoholic
2010-10-31 10:28 am (UTC)

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Her fault for not paying attention. Your fault for being so 'rawr I hate kids' that you would allow that to happen. I don't understand why you wouldn't direct a sing-songy, or at the very least an annoyed-sounding "Excuse me~" at the kid, which would've probably attracted both his attention and his mother's, allowing her to realize what a nuisance her child was being due to her negligence. Even if I didn't like children as much as you seem to, I don't think I would've allowed that to happen; no reasonable adult would.
[User Picture]From: lucindamai
2010-10-31 10:33 am (UTC)

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You're a bit in the wrong i guess, but in the end, the child is the mothers responsibility. Not yours. So really in my opinion she is mostly in the wrong in this situation.
[User Picture]From: jaysus
2010-10-31 10:47 am (UTC)

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idk, if you knew he was going to get hurt why did you open the door anyways? you couldn't take a second to warn him? that's a real bitch thing to do. yea, she should have been paying attention, but she's human and you can't always be 100% watching over your kid.
[User Picture]From: mamacyn
2010-10-31 12:56 pm (UTC)

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THIS!
[User Picture]From: woah_holey_gosh
2010-10-31 11:09 am (UTC)

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no one likes face planting. especially a toddler. you must of known that was going to happen, no need to be an asshole about it to prove a point.
[User Picture]From: plasmic_slime
2010-10-31 11:29 am (UTC)

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That's a real bitch move. You wouldn't have done it to an adult if they were stood there so why a child? That makes it worse.
Then to preach to someone about how to look after their child is hideous. I hope I never come across you.
[User Picture]From: sunow
2010-10-31 11:36 am (UTC)

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Yes, you were in the wrong. You saw the child in the doorway, and chose to open it in a way that would connect with the child, whether you intended it to knock him over or not, it was rude.

You "went nuts at her," which was just childish.

She was also rude, for not paying attention to her child.

But, I think you win on the "in the wrong" competition.
[User Picture]From: justcloseby
2010-10-31 07:04 pm (UTC)

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See edit please? I didn't "connect" with the child, I opened it inwards, and I specifically said that I didn't do it in a way which set out to hurt him. I'm not a sociopath, I promise.
[User Picture]From: hikerpoet
2010-10-31 11:40 am (UTC)

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Honestly? You come off as one of those childfree people who is less mature than most children.
Was the mother out of line? Sounds like it.
But, newsflash! Although two year olds CAN be willful and disobedient, they are humans *gasp*, members of society *shocker* and the vast majority of them WILL indeed move out of the way if you say excuse me! (Most of the ones who are going to be bratty may test limits with people they are comfortable with, but have extreme deference with strangers).
If he didn't move right away if you politely asked, like you probably would have done with an adult spacing out, then you could have either gotten more stern, said something to the effect of "come on, now, help me here" to the mom, shot a "help me?" glance to the staffers, or maybe even done what you did as a last resort. But you didn't even try to ask? Seriously?
[User Picture]From: aannnndy
2010-10-31 09:08 pm (UTC)

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"You come off as one of those childfree people who is less mature than most children."

Well, she *is* a member of CF_Hardcore and CF_Fuckrags.
From: saloonperfume
2010-10-31 11:41 am (UTC)

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Yes. Yes, you were.
[User Picture]From: anowyn
2010-10-31 11:44 am (UTC)

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Your distaste towards children should take a backseat when it comes to being nice to innocent children. Childfree or no, if you lack conscienctiousness towards an innocent child, you kinda suck imo.
[User Picture]From: anowyn
2010-10-31 11:45 am (UTC)

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Also hover over my icon and read the description cuz yeah
[User Picture]From: _boppo_
2010-10-31 11:46 am (UTC)

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Wait, so you knew he was there and just opened the door so that he would fall over?

Who cares if you don't like kids, he is just a kid and probably didn't realise, you could have just said excuse me, or even said "excuse me because I don't want you to get hurt".
[User Picture]From: anowyn
2010-10-31 11:53 am (UTC)

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CHILDFREE ARE ABOVE THE RULES OF SOCIALIZING WITH PEOPLE DIDN'T YOU REALIZE
[User Picture]From: queensugar
2010-10-31 12:00 pm (UTC)

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Just based off of what was said here, I'm in the "you're both in the wrong" camp. I don't particularly care for children, and when I was working in retail I've seen my fair share of rather unfortunate child accidents because parents were not paying attention, so it does tend to exasperat eme.

However, every time a child has blocked my way, I simply put on my best polite voice, say "excuse me," and they move (or the parent makes them move). To me it seems like a very rude and immature approach just to continue on without a care for another human being's safety or comfort. If it was an adult standing in the doorway, I would have to assume you wouldn't have done the same thing, recognizing that would be a pretty rude thing to do. Why is it that you think you're in the right just because it was a kid?

As for what you said to the mother -- well, I'm not entirely convinced that was exactly what was said verbatim. But if it was, rest assured it almost certainly wasn't a "reality check" on her parenting for her. People tend to dismiss that kind of lecturing and judgment from strangers outright, and I can't really blame them.
From: xprivate_radiox
2010-10-31 12:36 pm (UTC)

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Why would you not ask him to move, or say excuse me, or scoot him out of the way if you knew he was there? That's just a dick thing to do IMO. It doesn't matter if it's a child or an adult, you say excuse me, you don't just open a door and make someone fall. Just because you don't like kids doesn't give you the right to be a bitch about it.
Also, if you're saying the kid isn't your responsibility and it's his mom's place to teach him these things, how can you say anything to the mother about what you did teaching him a lesson? I'm not saying the mother shouldn't have been watching the kid more closely, but that doesn't mean that what you did wasn't wrong.
[User Picture]From: paisley80
2010-10-31 12:49 pm (UTC)

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If you had intentionally knocked my kid over because I wasn't paying attention, then went off at me when I called you on it, you would have left the store with fish and chips up your nose. If an adult had been standing in front of the door, you wouldn't have shoved them out of the way with the door. But because you would do it to a child, congratulations, you're a bully.
[User Picture]From: sassi214
2010-10-31 12:53 pm (UTC)

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Seriously.
This post is making my eye twitch.

[User Picture]From: lunasol
2010-10-31 12:55 pm (UTC)

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So you knew the kid was there, but you didn't even ask him to move? You're both wrong. She should have been keeping a better eye on her kid, but you shouldve at least said something to the kid before pushing him over. I doubt she was expecting a stranger to push her kid over when it was pretty obvious he was there, even if it would've meant teaching her and her kid a lesson because, well, that's a pretty shitty way for a grown adult to teach someone a lesson.
[User Picture]From: justcloseby
2010-10-31 07:07 pm (UTC)

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See edit please? I didn't push him - the door opened inward and he was on the outside.
[User Picture]From: mamacyn
2010-10-31 12:59 pm (UTC)

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It would have been one thing if you didn't see the kid there and you opened the door, but that was a total bitch thing to do when you knew something would have happened. Even if you don't like kids, you could show a little more consideration to the rest of the humans.

She really should have been watching her kid, but that was ultimately rude of you to have done that to the kid. He doesn't know any better!

GAH!

[User Picture]From: imagine_eyeball
2010-10-31 01:28 pm (UTC)

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lol you totally hurt an innocent child on purpose. go you.
[User Picture]From: justcloseby
2010-10-31 07:08 pm (UTC)

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See edit please?
[User Picture]From: autumn_robot
2010-10-31 01:55 pm (UTC)

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Yes, I think you should have gently coaxed him out of the way, to the best of your ability. But the mother was also wrong and should have been paying attention to her child.
[User Picture]From: autumn_robot
2010-10-31 02:01 pm (UTC)

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Also, just FYI, at two years old. He did not forever learn that a doorway isn't a play place because you knocked him over.
[User Picture]From: the_pyre
2010-10-31 02:18 pm (UTC)

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I have met BABIES that in that situation that "excuse me" would have worked on.

You hit a toddler with a door.

You purposefully hit a toddler with a door, you are automatically wrong. She should have looked up from her magazine every few seconds, and maybe she saw him there and figured if anyone needed him to move that they would say "excuse me", which is not asking the world to raise the child, it's asking the world to have common fucking decency toward one of it's inhabitants.

And it's not up to you decide what "valuable lessons" other people's kids should learn.
[User Picture]From: justcloseby
2010-10-31 07:10 pm (UTC)

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See edit please? I didn't HIT him with a door. The door opened inward and he was on the outside. And I think I made it rather clear in the OP that I wasn't looking to hurt him, in fact I specifically say... just read the edit please. This will teach me to post and then go to bed so I can't defend myself when I haven't made things clear.
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