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[Jul. 5th, 2012|08:45 pm]
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[hajiomatic]
do vegans eat honey?
sugar? corn syrup?
what do they sweeten thier organic tea or coffee with?
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: alpacacock
2012-07-05 04:17 pm (UTC)

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Most I've met don't. There is some argument about the sentience of bees tho.

Sugar is fine. I know many vegans who avoid corn syrup due to health reasons, but not ethical reasons.

Sugar in the raw.
[User Picture]From: cordelia_sue
2012-07-05 04:30 pm (UTC)

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Some cane sugar is processed through bone char. Beet sugar is always vegan, though.
[User Picture]From: nightninja76
2012-07-05 04:57 pm (UTC)

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There is some argument about the sentience of bees tho.

Is that relevant? Starfish, oysters, urchin... there are plenty of animals that are certainly not sentient and I don't think any vegan would eat them.
[User Picture]From: alpacacock
2012-07-05 05:04 pm (UTC)

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A lot of vegans base it on sentience, yes. I know vegans who will argue even insects are sentient where "sentient" here ends up being loosely-defined as "able to experience pain".
[User Picture]From: rogh_sensei
2012-07-05 05:46 pm (UTC)

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Shit. Plants can experience pain. What do those vegans eat, air?
[User Picture]From: loveandbees
2012-07-05 06:56 pm (UTC)

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Do they? :s I was under the impression that organisms needed a brain and a nervous system to experience pain.
[User Picture]From: rogh_sensei
2012-07-05 07:51 pm (UTC)

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Someone did an experiment once that involved attaching electrodes to a plant and then burning the leaves. Apparently the plant had a reaction. In addition, certain trees are known to be aware of being attacked by beetles and communicate pheromonally to the other trees to start generating a defense chemical.
[User Picture]From: loveandbees
2012-07-05 09:13 pm (UTC)

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Interesting! I would think of it as a different sort of pain though, and do not count plants as conscious beings.
[User Picture]From: rogh_sensei
2012-07-05 10:40 pm (UTC)

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Different how? It's a physiological reaction to a negative stimulus that indicates the presence of a threat to the continued survival and well-being of the lifeform. Is it because the plant doesn't flinch? Doesn't scream?
[User Picture]From: thehoodiewhore
2012-07-05 11:51 pm (UTC)

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Are these chemical reactions the same as being able to perceive and comprehend pain in the same way animals do? Plants lack a central nervous system or any design to consciously be able to grasp suffering, and there is no evolutionary advantage for plants to feel pain on top of that.
[User Picture]From: rogh_sensei
2012-07-06 12:42 am (UTC)

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Does it matter if it comprehends pain the way you do? Is that your moral horizon, to only hurt things that can't feel the same kind of pain you do?
And there is the same evolutionary advantage for plants as animals: self preservation.
[User Picture]From: thehoodiewhore
2012-07-06 03:02 am (UTC)

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Oh, lol. Anything to make us sound stupid, right?

A vegan's goal is to minimize suffering, we know we can never completely eliminate it. I'm not particularly concerned about plants, as there is really no way to prove they actually perceive the pain and can consciously experience fear, suffering, etc. Even if they feel pain, it doesn't mean "Oh well, might as well eat meat." We have to eat too. On the grounds that we must eat to survive, eating a vegetarian/vegan diet would cause less suffering to plants and animals, as the animals used in food consumption eat countless more plants than we do.

If someone is actually concerned, they can always become a fruitarian. Fruits are designed to be eaten, that is how seeds are spread. Eating fruit also does not harm the mother plant.

Edited at 2012-07-06 03:02 am (UTC)
[User Picture]From: rogh_sensei
2012-07-06 12:08 pm (UTC)

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Not exactly that. I just wanted to get an exercise in critical thinking going and see if you can spot the logical fallacies at work here. I do like your answer about the fruitarian diet though. That logic is at least internally consistent. I look at it this way: Human beings are the only species on the planet that concerns itself with how its dinner feels about being eaten. Even our closest cognitive equals, the chimps and dolphins, are not only known for predating but for sometimes being outright bastards about it. Something about those numbers tells me maybe we've got it back to front and are only inventing trouble.
[User Picture]From: violetchoux
2012-07-05 04:23 pm (UTC)

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Agave nectar?
From: twelvehandshigh
2012-07-05 04:53 pm (UTC)

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No
No. IDK.
Leaves and shit.
[User Picture]From: thehoodiewhore
2012-07-05 04:56 pm (UTC)

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By definition they shouldn't. It's an ongoing debate though.

Some sugar is processed with bone char, although this is sometimes unavoidable and not practical. I don't believe there's anything unvegan about corn syrup, but I and a lot of other vegans I know avoid it or extremely limit their intake of it.

I don't sweeten mine, but many I know many use organic sugar, agave nectar, stevia, and a lot of other things.
[User Picture]From: otempora541
2012-07-05 05:23 pm (UTC)

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One vegan friend doesn't really use honey, but she will still eat it. She doesn't drink coffee, and I want to say she drinks unsweetened tea?

corn syrup I think is more of an ethical issue because it's everywhere.
[User Picture]From: musicboxwaltz
2012-07-05 06:16 pm (UTC)

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the super duper strict vegans dont, some do.

i use stevia to sweeten things. or maple syrup on occasion.
[User Picture]From: musicboxwaltz
2012-07-05 06:22 pm (UTC)

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also what does corn syrup & sugar have to do with vegans? they not from animals
[User Picture]From: saccharin_smile
2012-07-05 07:21 pm (UTC)

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Some sugar is processed through bone char, which makes it not vegan.
[User Picture]From: musicboxwaltz
2012-07-07 01:09 am (UTC)

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which sugar?
[User Picture]From: freakshownia
2012-07-05 09:11 pm (UTC)

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No vegans eat honey. If they eat honey, they're not a vegan. That's like saying someone is a vegetarian but they still eat chicken. Nope.
[User Picture]From: musicboxwaltz
2012-07-07 01:09 am (UTC)

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haha, whatever. so stupid.
[User Picture]From: aimingforpeace
2012-07-05 07:06 pm (UTC)

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Most don't.
If it's vegan sugar. Much of it is processed using bone meal, so it's not technically vegan. Probably?
Sugar, syrup, stevia, artificial sweetners.
[User Picture]From: phronistes
2012-07-05 07:51 pm (UTC)

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Some
Unrefined sugar. Corn syrup, yes.
Sugar in the Raw. Unrefined. Agave syrup.
[User Picture]From: firesidedog
2012-07-05 09:00 pm (UTC)

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I eat my honey. But she is not vegan.
[User Picture]From: freakshownia
2012-07-05 09:09 pm (UTC)

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No.
For sugar it depends. Not all sugar is vegan (some white sugar is processed with bone char) but corn syrup is fine. I like to use agave nectar to sweet tea and coffee.